[Peter Jourdain]

Tally-ho!

I am an avid tourist and recreational rider who is 6′-4″ tall with a long torso and arms. My riding style is upright, with bars equal to saddle height or higher. I would love to own a new-style Moulton. However, having tried a TSR from a Chicago shop, it felt like a toy underneath me, and, despite the shop salesman/mechanic’s best efforts with a different stem, etc., he could not get the bars up high enough to my liking or comfort. A test ride had me feeling as if I were about to pitch over the handlebars, and the ride was most unpleasant. I had difficulty controlling the bike. I walked away disappointed.

I have several questions:
1. Is it possible for an off-the-shelf Moulton to fit someone like me, utilizing a higher-rising Moulton stem? But I understand that virtual top-tube length may also be an issue.
2. If a standard machine will not fit, has Moulton ever considered making a somewhat (say, 20%) larger frame for taller riders? Or would they make a custom build to such an end?
3. Failing successful answers to the above, are you aware of anyone who has had a Moulton taken apart by a qualified framebuilder and “re-engineered” with new, longer tubing to create a machine with a longer wheelbase, longer virtual top tube, extended headtube, etc.? If so, do you have any recommendations for such builders?

Thanks so much!

[Alexander Johnston]

IMO new Moultons are not suitable for people over about 6 feet two inches. Others may disagree but that’s my opinion.
As far as I’m aware Moulton may have considered making a larger frame but haven’t done so.
If Moulton were to make a special upsized frame for you it would cost a lot of money and you would be taking the risk that you wouldn’t enjoy riding the bike when you got it.
I suspect that this could require rejigging and some retooling. Would the costs be justified bearing in mind that Moulton are a micro-bicycle producer producing about 500 machines a year.
Note that about 80% of Moulton production is exported and the Far East is an important market.

If you want to take it further I suggest you contact the Moulton Bicycle Company and write or speak to Dan Farrell the Technical Director.

There are also a number of Moulton Facebook websites where you could raise this issue. Inevitably you will find someone who’s 6 feet 4 and has had no problems riding a Moulton.

I’m 5 9 and I have difficulty appreciating how anyone who’s even 6 2 can comfortably ride a Moulton even if they adopt a sit-up riding position.

[Peter Jourdain]

Thank you, Alexander, for the kind and rational response. I suspected some of what you wrote, but it is good to hear the straightforward prognosis (negative though it be) from a member of the MBC. I will probably follow up with your suggested contacts, but with realistic (limited) expectations. It’s a shame, really, because in riding the Moulton (I’d also ridden a friend’s, which was set up somewhat better for a tall rider than the bike shop version I had tried), I could definitely tell there was something there, the way it floated over the broken pavement, turned nicely, and was so easy to mount and dismount. Still, the sizing wasn’t quite where it should be for someone of my size. The Far East factor you cite makes sense, as I’ve seen a number of Moulton videos from that region, and even one of a Moulton tandem, which must (I’m guessing) have been re-engineered from two singles. In general, people there are shorter than Yanks like myself, so it would seem a fruitful market for Moulton. Still, I’m shocked at the overall low production output for the company.

Should I against all odds (and perhaps against rationality) follow through with my Moulton obsession I may have to go the way of buying a Moulton in functional shape, and have a framebuilder take it apart for the suspension bits, and reconstruct a larger-scale machine with longer tubing. That, I imagine, though possible, would be quite an enterprise and expense.

Again, Alexander, thank you for the response!

Kind regards,

Peter

[CLIVE FENNER]

Have you considerd a classic f frame Moulton ? I think this could easily be made longer by cutting the main tube, in the same position as a stowaways joint, & welding in an extension piece to the desired length. A higher saddle height & handlebars should be achievable.

[Peter Jourdain]

Thank you, Clive, for the interesting response. I’d not exactly thought of having an F-frame altered, and have not ridden one, though I’ve a friend who owns one, so I should try it. He is rather tall and seems comfortable on it. I’d had my heart set on a new style Moulton, but your suggestion is certainly something to consider. I will most definitely seek out my friend to borrow his F-frame for a spin to see if even “out of the box” it might work for me. If not, I might follow along the lines you suggest, though, ultimately, I wanted a more modern-style machine for daily use, touring, and trail riding. Thanks again, Clive!

Kind regards,

Peter

[Lee jenkins]

Hi Peter
I have recently bought a second hand tsr27 from a guy who was 6’5″ and it was fitted with an enormous stem which made the riding position to upright for me @ 6’1″.
What size stem did you mechanic fit?

Kind regards
Lee

[Peter Jourdain]

Greetings, Lee —

Thanks for the kind reply. I don’t precisely know exactly which stem or its height which the mechanic at the bike shop fitted. I believe it brought up the handlebar height perhaps four inches. Mind you, my memory is a tad fuzzy on this, as it was about three years ago that all this took place. HOWEVER….now that you “raise” the stem issue, I do recall this perhaps quite significant matter — that the height and reach of the stem which the shop temporarily fitted for me was limited by the then-current length of the brake and shifter cables which had originally come with the machine. Because of this limitation, he could only extend the bars up so high, and could only use a stem whose reach did not exceed the length of the cables. I’d forgotten that part of the story.

Because of your comment I also now remember the mechanic saying that as a test for me they would recable the bike and fit an even taller stem, but I would have to pay for the purchase of the new stem and the work both to convert the bike to a higher rise stem and also to convert it back were I to choose not to purchase the Moulton. Having had a bad riding experience on what limited arrangements they could muster for me, I didn’t want to invest a couple of hundred dollars simply on the gamble of perhaps a more successful test ride, so I declined the offer. But perhaps you’ve hit on something — that a re-cabled machine with an extra-tall stem and perhaps a fairly long horizontal reach might bring a TSR closer to my “rideability zone.” I just can’t imagine a shop taking such steps for me without the reasonable expectation that I would either buy the converted machine or, failing a successful test ride, pay the fees for a new stem, cabling and mechanic time.

So, without making some kind of financial investment in re-configuring a Moulton into a high-rise stem version, I guess it is unlikely that I’ll actually ever learn whether a Moulton CAN potentially fit me. You’ve really got me thinking, now, Lee….

Kind regards,

Peter

[Alexander Johnston]

I posted this issue on a “Moulton” Facebook forum. There were several responses from tall riders. The consensus was that 6 2 was the limit and for some people, depending on the length of their legs and arms, it could be less than that. I think therefore
that 6 1 could be stretching it. I suspect that Moulton will eventually have to increase the size of their frames if they wish to sell bikes in Europe and the US, given that 6 2 isn’t unusual these days and people are getting taller.

[Peter Jourdain]

Thank you, Alexander, for taking the steps to post to various Moulton forums. It is greatly appreciated! I do agree with you about how Moulton should consider increasing their frame sizes by offering a larger alternative. I (and many others, I suspect) would buy one in a heartbeat! Thanks, too, for further confirming your initial assessment that 6′-2″ is at the outer limits of Moultonability….. I’m quite disappointed in the current status of things, as you might imagine. It is frustrating when somebody like myself (who is not a “giant” by any means) cannot obtain the bicycle he wants when he can readily find traditional bikes, coats, pants, etc.

Thank you again!

All the best,

Peter

[david james]

had the same problem (sort of!) with my apb, that is seat stem embediment into the frame, if there’s not enough you risk bending the seat tube.i found a steel tube that went right to the base and had it welded to a short length of standard stem at the top, that was a year ago and it work’s fine for me.i would suggest you buy a secondhand one and do a similar mod for the steering stem, it’s a similar issue with the mk3 and that work’s fine as well.

[Simon Rafferty]

I’m 6’7″ and have an APB (Land Rover) which, with an extended steering post is comfortable. My Steering Post was sourced from Amazon and is 250mm long, 22.2mm diameter. It’s not original equipment (obviously) – but the end result is good.

Like the OP, I prefer to sit upright.

Si

[Edward Mayell]

Hi Simon, I know this question has been floating around for a while but I’m now in the market of my first Moulton and am also very tall at 6ft.4. I’m intrigued to know more about personal experiences on Moultons as a tall rider?? I’d like to see what your bike looks like now it’s been adjusted to your height. The more I’ve looked into this and asked questions relating to height I’ve received mixed reviews from mildly positive to out and out don’t bother?!!! I’d be very much interested to see what you look like on your bike at 6.7”. Well done though for your ingenuity in making it fit you.

[Simon Rafferty]

Hi Edward,
There doesn’t seem to be a facility to upload a photo – otherwise I would! If you google for me, my mail address is easy to find. Send me a mail & I’ll send a photo!

The only modification I’ve made in addition to the seat tube is a handlebar riser (probably 60mm) and an adjustable extension bar 110mm long set at an angle of 30 deg.
My Knees are still close to hitting the handlebars though. I might increase the extension to 150mm, but for that I’ll have to extend all the cables. I’ll leave that for a dark winter night project.

I probably look daft riding it – but I love it! Apart from my knee occasionally brushing the handlebars while steering (and I’m used to that now), I find it one of the most comfortable bikes I’ve ridden. Unfortunately, even large framed bikes are not designed for and hence uncomfortable for people like me – so this is perfect.

Where there’s a will, there’s a way!

Si

[NeillSlater]

After Alex Moulton decided to move away from the headonistic mass production days of
Moultons heydays back in the 1960s when Moulton were selling hundreds of thousands of units per annum Alex Moulton took things to a much smaller scale with a handfull of staff.
as a direct consequence when you only produce smaller numbers, you have to keep a very,very tight reign on what you are doing to ensure that you stay in business.
Moulton produce and sell roughly between 500 – 1000 units per annum tops.
Ok, with the current situation where their order book is full to bursting possibly 3500 units
per year tops.
contrast with the 100,000 units per annum which Brompton produce to get a real sense of scale.
Moulton are Not in the mass production game.
Sure Moulton would want to cater to the taller riders but the taller riders will have to force Moulton to see this market segment as a viable market segment.
Moulton like all businesses are a businesses governed by Pounds,shillings and pence.
that means all the taller riders need to club together to contact Moulton in batches of 500 or so with Firm paid in advance deposits.This makes financial sense for Moulton to then produce a larger Spaceframe version.then the larger spaceframe for taller riders will become a reality.such groups for taller can be easily organised through social media.corrall all the persons together so you are all pulling in the same direction and then elect a representative to talk to Moulton collectively for the entire group.if this group smacks down a Firm Cash order for 500 Spaceframes in a larger size on Moultons board office table.a spaveframe for taller riders Will become a reality.thats How it works.

[Simon Rafferty]

I agree with all of that, having run an Engineering company for a decade – you have to follow the money.

However, it’s not only Moulton – it’s very hard to find a bike that is actually proportioned correctly for taller riders.

The average height of the population is increasing – but it’s no easier to find a ‘tall’ bike now, than 30 years ago.

My APB with the adaptions is my favorite bike to date. As I said, I probably look daft riding what must look like a child’s bike – but it’s still more comfortable than most.

When it finally falls apart (I’ve had to re-machine several bits), I figure I’ll build my own frame.

[NeillSlater]

Yes,there Certainly is a Niche in the market to cater for Taller riders.The easiest way to get a Moulton for Taller riders is to set up a group on social media to campaign for 500 to 1000 Taller people who are prepared to place a deposit with Moulton Bicycle Company for a larger frame Moulton.organising something like this through social media is very easy and cheap.a 1000 or 500 order in Cash landing on Moulton Bicycle Companys boardroom desk would cause them to take the issue very seriously indeed and make a Moulton frame suitable for a Taller rider.Thats How you get what you Want.Like All Companies Moulton is a Business.They are in Business to make a Profit.If You organise 500 to 1000 persons or possibly More who are prepared to pay the deposit directly to Moulton for a larger framed Moulton then Moulton Will Definately Make the larger framed Moulton.Thats How it Works.At that point Moulton Will simply carry out the order.

[Simon Rafferty]

Neill, while that sounds simple in principle, getting 500-1000 people to place a firm order, never mind stump up cash in advance is an almost impossible task.

10 years ago, I arranged a ‘group buy’ for a product. Since I had a trade account with the manufacturer and I had over 100 ‘guaranteed’ orders, with 10% deposits paid. I stumped up the cash for the order. It was remarkable how many of the ‘guaranteed’ orders vapourised when it came time to pay up! At one stage I was down about £20k – and thinking this was not such a smart move after all. It took years to sell on all the product & break even.

I fear the same would happen with tall bikes! There are just too many risks for whoever fronts the capital. What happens if the manufacturer increases their price? Or if they fold? You might accept loosing your deposit – but you’re certainly not going to pay the balance just so I don’t loose out.

The lower risk option is just to design & make my own bike. Then I have control over the quality and manufacture. I can set my own margins and expend the media effort you referred to, marketing my own company. Perhaps unsurprisingly, I have been considering something like this if the film industry in the UK dires up & I find myself without work.

[Dave Minter]

Theoretically, it would be comparatively simple to build a new jig for a bigger ‘front half’ mainframe which would put the handlebars higher and further away. That isn’t likely to happen at the factory though.

I am about 182cm tall and use a 150mm stem and drop bars on my TSR. Someone much taller would want a stem closer to 170-180mm, much like Duffield’s stem on his Mk.3. Moulton does sell a few lovely stems of that length but at premium prices. SJS often has a small selection of cheaper stems >140mm.

[NeillSlater]

Simon, Yes, I Concede you have a Valid point.However, there is a Genuine Need for Taller riders who would like to experience the Joys of a Moulton Bicycle.The easiest way to harness this “Financial Yoke” to Dragoon Moulton into actually producing such a Bicycle is through social media lassooing the people together. There needs to be a Worldwide group set up through the a close liason with Bike shops etc.Once the group has been set up and there is a sufficiently large user base lets say between 75,000 – 100,000 persons.then its time to contact Moulton to ask them what the minimum order size would need to be for them to seriously consider making this size a reality.750-1000 firm orders ought to be ball park.
from a 100,000 user base it will be considerably easier to find 750 firm order willing to put the entire amount up.you Need to have the Full amount.Never accept less as otherwise when its time to pay up if the money isnt there then as the frontman they will be on a very sticky wicket.to ensure that the investors dosh doesnt end up doon the swanney in the unliklely event that the manufacturer goes out of business the fund should be paid into a bank account where the manufacturer can see the funds are available and a binding contract signed which gives the manufacturer ful entitlement to the funds upon completion and delivery of the order.that should cover it.the Only argument that companies understand is Money.A Financial argument is the Only way to make a larger AM Frame available so taller riders can enjoy the Joys of riding a Moulton Bicycle.Nowadays Mouton are a tiny company.They will make a larger frame available if the Money is there in a cast iron nailed on offer.

[Roger Cantwell]

A TSR with the most high-rise stem available on the market, with the stem slammed onto the headset top race, gives a bar position slightly on the low side (4″ below the saddle) for me, and I’m only 5’10”. The maximum amount of spacers you can put under the stem to raise it is obviously limited by steerer length, but a 6’4″ rider who likes the bars level with the saddle would need around 7″ of spacers, and that’s not possible or safe. If it were an alloy steerer, you’d be limited to 1″ of spacers!

The best solution is probably a custom steel stem. It’ll cost a lot, but only about 1/25 the cost of a fully-specced TSR.

[Martin Bracey]

Moulton now offers a “Swan Neck” stem as an option for the Moulton
Flyte, somewhat resembling the Bike Friday custom fitted stems.

Perhaps a custom fitted Moulton Swan Neck stem would provide enough
reach and height.

[Stefan Magnusson]

A dear friend of mine had a Moulton Speed that he customized for his 6′ 4″ size. He changed the cranks to be longer, a longer seat tube, and had the Moulton “bull horn” handlebars. He commuted on the bike daily in New York City and loved it.

[Mark]

For taller riders there are two (expensive) Moulton Options that should be good to 6’4 depending on body proportions, steerer length, and reach and height preference.

The wishbone stem is available in 100/150/170mm reach. The wishbone is not light and requires a 120mm centre section of 26mm which limits handlebar options (Nitto for example tends to only provide 100mm). It is chrome plated which isn’t ideal. £450 for quill, £420 for ahead.

The M stem is available in 90/120/150/180mm reach for a 31.8mm bar. Reynolds 953 with silver brazing. £300.

[Author]

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