[George G. Garnett]

I have ridden Series 1 F frames since 12 years old – now 60.
I want something with more gears now that I have retired and will cycle an hour a day in the Norman countryside, with the hope of building up to greater distances.
My budget would just stretch to a TSR 27, but have always drooled when seeing APB’s (particularly Land Rover!?).
Given all factors – what would you choose and why?
Many thanks, George
(PS Is Bob MacQueen the one who was a founder member of the 2CVGB club?)

[Roger Green]

I’ve also ridden my Series 1 F frame since I was 12 – although I’m only 57. I want a lighter bike and more gears too. Did you explore upgrading your F frame before deciding to change? I want to upgrade (gears, alloy bits) but if you have tried it already then I’d like to hear what you think. Has anyone at MBC got a list of the right bits and where to get them? I’ve just fitted a nano motor and lithium ion battery and it’s certainly another route to greater distances (mainly by elimination of hills). Roger

[George G. Garnett]

I didn’t explore the upgrade route. One of my S1’s was a product of Michael Woolf. It has 17″ wheels, 5 speed SA hub and the rear frame bar has been removed.
Comfortable, quick, still heavy and not enough gears. Can’t justify a Rohloff hub!!
Electric motors don’t keep you fit – that’s cheating….

[Ian]

The trouble with setting your heart on a ‘Land Rover’ (or whatever) is that they may not be available!

APB’s do appear for sale (most often on eBay) from time to time, but the condition is, at best, variable and prices seem to be a bit mad.

If you can afford it a new TSR has to be a good choice as it is going to be a ‘better’ bike and not completely worn out yet and the alternative is to wait until the ‘right’ used spaceframe comes along.

(I’d have a TSR27 if I could afford it, I’ve got a APB 3×7 – the 531 framed post Land Rover)

[George G. Garnett]

Thanks Ian. What could the TSR27 do better for you than your APB 3×7 / 531?
There’s a Land Rover on Ebay this weekend – supposedly as new with minimal use.and a £875 reserve….
I suppose it comes down to the decision as to whether the TSR27 is worth £500 more than this Land Rover for example.
I go through this agony every time I buy something – it must be a form of masochism.
Whereas the Missus, she just buys almost on a whim and is pretty well always content with what she gets!!!

[Ian]

I’m not sure what a new TSR could do ‘better’ than my particular APB as it was largely unused when I bought it (who buys a £1000+ bicycle and not use it?) and I have not tried a 27. But I think I probably got lucky as there seem to be some pretty ropey examples out there apparently selling for rather a lot.

I would rather buy new, but I don’t have the best part of £1500 spare (I probably don’t have £150 spare!) so am quite happy with my lot as it goes.

[Patrick Doocey]

I have both an APB fx8 (upgraded to 18 speed) and a TSR 30.

The main points of benefit of the TSR are:
– design: the TSR will take a triple chainring and caliper brakes allowing drop bars and integrated shifting. Doing this on the APB requires fudges. The TSR also has an unified rear triangle.
– spec: the TSR will be much more modern. Some of these benefits are real, the others marginal. External bearing bottom bracket, threadless headset, the newer design leading links.
– availability: TSRs are pretty rare second hand but you will definitely get a new one from a dealer. You could spend several months looking for a decent, reasonably priced APB.
– age: any APB you find is likely to be at least 10 years old, and the frame and particularly the components are likely to be closer to their eventual end of life.
– price: second hand APBs sometimes sell on ebay for not much less than the price of a new TSR.
– quality: Pashley got better at building Moultons as the years went on. Generally speaking, newer APBs are lighter and better made. Some older ones did suffer from build quality problems.

There is one benefit of an APB – it has a more versatile rear platform rack which can be used to carry various loads, and will work with most non-TSR Moulton rear bags. So it can be swapped between other Moultons. The TSR rear luggage system is excellent but is less versatile, as the main rack is narrower and is only compatible with either the large TSR-specific rear bags, or the small Carradice rack bags.

If it were me, I’d be picking the TSR without question.

[Bob MacQueen]

Yes i am the Bob MacQueen who was a founder member of 2CVGB! I still live opposite the Oak Inn (sadly now closed and rumored to be a Sainsburys local – and have the Sahara 4×4 jut restored.
I also am 67 and own both a APB a Fx8 converted to 16 and a TSR 27. I did have a TSR 30 with flat bars which I sold and replaced with the 27.
I love both bikes and they are quite different. The APB is nearest to an F Frame in riding position you sit quite upright compared to the TSR which stretches you out a little more.
I tend to ride the TSR mostly but I think the APB is somehow more comfortable, more compliant maybe.
The Dual drive is a delight and I have a hub built into a wheel – older version – which I intend to use to convert the APB.
The reason i changed from the 30 was touring. I found the tyre availability lacking – it is a bit better now – and whilst touring in Germany got down to the carcass and just made it home! also the fact that you can drop a gear when stationary is brilliant at traffic lights.
so which one! The TSR is undoubtedly the better bike but the APB has some advantages, maybe it depends on the type of riding you do. In town maybe the APB wins slightly.
I would try for a Dual drive.
Good luck and whichever you choose I am sure you will love it.
regards
bob

[George G. Garnett]

Patrick – Thank you for your valuable comments.
Bob – Thank you for your comments as well. (We have met – I was Chair at the time of the 18th birthday – we met in the Oak – don’t worry about not remembering. If you’re ever cycling in Calvados/Normandie, pop in for a tipple)
It looks like it’ll be the TSR27 – my riding is all country and it’ll be new.
Seperable = I can get it in the back of my 2CV limousine!!!
Thanks to all,
Graham

[Alexander Johnston]

I’ve a TSR 27 and a TSR 30 Tour and I’ve ridden a friend’s Land Rover. Of the two TSRs the 27 is the more versatile bike with a wider range of tyres and gearing including a good low gear.
The dualdrive system is easy to use and provides 27 usuable gears. If you don’t mind having straight bars I think the TSR 27 is the one to go for IMO.
The TSR is simply a much better bike that a APB. When I was considering buying a TSR I received this email from Shaun Moulton “The TSR 27 has the lowest range of gears. The Moulton TSR is made at the Pashley factory on our jigs and fixtures. The TSR is leapS and bounds beyond the original APB in weight, braze and frame quality and performance.”
Alex

[George G. Garnett]

Thanks Alexander, it looks like I’m going to buy a TSR 27. In the past I’ve been used to standing and forcing my Series Ones up hills – maybe now I can experience sitting and winding myself up them!
Graham

[Alexander Johnston]

George, one thing I suggest if you get a TSR 27 is that you do a practice run taking off the rear wheel to fix a puncture and avoid having to do it for the first time in the cold and wet.
I’ve posted some hints on this on the Yahoo Moulton website which you should be able to locate if you type in TSR 27.
Apart from putting it in the right gear (downhill mode, smallest cog) it’s important to push the clickbox firmly firmly back on to the rod before you push the button on the bottom of the clickbox upwards to engage it.
Also to get the rear wheel axle into the dropouts you really need to yank the rear mech arm firmly backwards.
Finally, when the wheel is off avoid dropping it on the little rod and bending it.
You will need to carry a 15mm spanner.
Alex

[George G. Garnett]

Thanks again Alexander. I’ve just submitted a membership request to the Yahoo group.

[Simon Painter]

At 57, I would plump for either a TSR or an APB – whichever pops up over the For Sale horizon sooner ! I would reckon the single major advantage of an APB over a TSR should be price. The TSR has several minor advantages over the APB, roughly summed up by i) weight and ii) build quality. I’ve used several variations of both APB and TSR to tour in northern France, and am confident that you would thoroughly enjoy doing same whichever spaceframe Moulton you end up with 🙂
I wrote a review of my first TSR – a Dual-Drive 27 – soon after I came back from my first trip on it to Brittany. You are welcome to a copy if you like.

[George G. Garnett]

Simon, thanks for the comments. You have pretty well summed it up. Price versus newness(?). I’d love to see the report you wrote.
Many thanks, Graham

[Ian]

Someone got a bit of a result from ebay today, a very clean 2003 APB24 sold for £685.

Much less than usual for ebay, I have seen rather dodgy looking and pretty old APB12’s go for that sort of money!

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