[stan ellison]

I’ve been reading some online stuff about converting a 4 speed Sturmey Archer hub to 5 speeds. I wonder if anyone has, or can point me to, some details about this?

[John Faulkner]

I’ve had a Lauterwasser converted 5 speed in the recent past (a very nice 1949 Clements Road-bike/Tourer) and have basic details to offer. It’s a relatively simple conversion actually, but you need twin levers to operate it. Not a problem, and the original 4 speed trigger is obviously needed, and in-situ normally! But you also need a lever for the LH side to operate a simple in-out shifter, so a normal LH down-tube lever will do the job effectively. The later 5 speed Sturmey Archer hubs use a similar, but often problematic twin shifter system.

The thing to bear in mind is that the 4 speed SA hubs were originally designed for 5 speed operation, but SA decided (in their wisdom) that it was too complicated for reliable use in production then. The Lauterwasser version is quite simple and reliable in use in my experience.

I’ll gladly email you the details I have if you PM me with your email address. Trying to explain it here with pictures is not so easy. On the other hand with 4 speed hubs fitted to most of the F frame Moultons I’m a little surprised the info is not available here on this site. Might be down to the fact that there are certain books available which explain all this in detail. At a price of course.

My experience/info is gratis.

John.

[Pandora]

The conversion you have in mind, FW to 5 speed, does it require a new 5 speed axle?

Or are you modifying the existing FW axle to perform the upgrade?

[stan ellison]

My plan is to convert as much as possible. I have 2 FW hubs but only one indicator chain. I got the impression that it was possible to use the more commonly available AW indicator as part of the conversion.

[stan ellison]

Thanks to some great information from John Faulkner I now have a list of parts I need to convert my 4 speed Sturmey Archer hub to 5 speeds. My new problem is where to find them. The parts numbers are;
HSA 124, Axle key from the standard AW 3 speed hub. (Also found in the first S5 hub.
HSA 269, Primary sun gear in the S5 hubs and the very earliest FW hubs.
K 412, A locking washer for an FW hub.
Can any one suggest a supplier for these parts?
Thanks in advance.

[Ian]

Try Old Bike Trader

http://www.oldbiketrader.co.uk/

[stan ellison]

Ian
Thanks. I got 2 out of three. He stocks the axle key and the lock washer but not the sun gear. My fall back position on the sun gear is to take a file to it. For the fifth gear this piece needs to take drive from both directions. When Sturmey Archer decided to limit the hub to 4 gears one of the drive faces was changed to a slope, presumably to make coming out of high top gear easier. I reckon that if I file flats halfway up the slopes there will be enough for both drive and strength. My local ALDI store are selling diamond faced needle files. The perfect excuse.

[Simon Painter]

well worth a read…
http://sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-archer/s52.html

[stan ellison]

Thanks for that Simon. I had encountered that page before but this time the Technical information tag works!

I have completed the conversion but not yet tested it on a bike. I can get all five gears on the bench. I used the Bicycle Hub site dismantling photo essay to take it all apart with no problems and a range of materials to convert and reassemble. I found what I think to be an error in the book info which I got from John Faulkner. I need to read this again and check before giving more details. The wheel from which this hub came is an old rusty and bent chromed original from my series 1 which I replaced with an Ally internet rim and a spare FW hub. My next step is to swap hubs..

I have had a lot of fun designing alternatives to the bell crank. After swapping hubs I will try and make the least unlikely of these and put it all together. My current health is less than ideal but I’m hoping to get it all sorted some time in the next few weeks. When it all works I will report back.

[Simon Painter]

Good News, Stan! I like the sound of the 5 speed conversion, not least ‘cos it’d make the selection of the lowest gears easier – I’ve always found heaving the FW into 1st a bit of a challenge!
I’m currently thinking about a ‘Speed Eight’ based on an FW with 2 sprockets, but I might, just might… think about doing the 5 speed conversion now you’ve done the trail-blazing!
Thinks: if I put 3 sprockets on the driver AND do the 5 speed conversion… hmmm.

[Gary Knight]

I am thinking the same I have a converted FW and I was thinking of putting two road sprockets in the back a 13t and a ? Couldn’t decide if I should go for a 26t?
With 17″ wheels this would give an overall range of 22.6-101.5 which should easily get me up the steepest hills and the top gear will be high enough for me. Will 3 sprockets fit in the back?

[stan ellison]

I have a Brompton with 2 sprockets on a 3 speed hub.. On the hub I converted I have 2 spacers, the sprocket and the cir-clip. I suppose sprocket, spacer sprocket cir-clip would take up the same space. So might three sprockets but I don’t know if the chain would fit on the smaller sprockets.

I’ve decided to stick with a single sprocket. I take just 5 gears and loose more expensive and fast wearing chain, the derailleur and a third cable. All of which I don’t have. Also my cycling needs are modest. 3 miles into town and back. 5 gears are enough for me. Cheers.

[Brian Conolly]

You can get the correct primary sun gear (and the lock washer) from Bikesmith design in the US

cheers
Brian

[stan ellison]

Thanks Brian. Do you have a link to his site? I found it on my first round of looking but somehow lost the bookmark. Maybe now you’ve given me his name I can find it myself.
Cheers.

[Brian Conolly]

Hi Stan

Here he is:

http://bikesmithdesign.com/

It won’t cost much. I’d recommend the cotter press too. I don’t know how I survived without it!

cheers
b

[stan ellison]

Thanks Brian. Once I had the name I found him with Google. Cotter press eh? More sophisticated than my 2ld lump hammer.

Cheers

Stan

[stan ellison]

Just a note to say that yesterday I made the left hand side activator and fitted the hub to the alloy wheel. Today, after what seemed like endless rain I got a short try out and all 5 gears are working fine. The filed down sun gear works OK and the locking washer can be reused once so the minimum needed for this conversion is the AW axle key and indicator chain.

Cheers.

[Rob Buddle]

Hi Stan, it’s been a few months since you did your 4-to-5 speed conversion, and I was wondering how it’s working out?

I’m interested in doing the same thing and bikesmithdesign and wanted ads on this forum and in the Moulton Yahoo group have drawn a blank in getting the 5 speed sun gear and axle needed to do it.

However you seem to have managed without these parts. Can you give me some more details on exactly how you modified the existing sun gear, and the bell-crank alternative you made? What other parts did you end up buying (I assume a pair of 3 speed indicator chains were needed at some point?).

I’ve sent you a message with my email address – if you have any pictures of the mods you made or the custom parts you crafted, that would very helpful!

Thanks and kind regards,

Rob buddle.

[stan ellison]

Hi Rob

I replied to your email and attached some files that could be helpful. Let me know if you haven’t received them.

I’ve not done much cycling through the winter this year so it has not been well tested yet. If it’s dry tomorrow I’ll give it a run.

I bought one AW indicator chain and the key that it screws into and the lock washer. All the part numbers are in an earlier post in this thread and I bought them from a seller who’s link can also be found above.

You will know when you disassemble the hub if the sun gear needs modification. Earlier in this thread someone posted a link to an American site that offers the sun gear. I decided to file flats on the sloping faces. The flats don’t have to go all the way to the top. 2/3 of the way up will do. My take on this is that this is for super high gear and when I’m in this gear I’m not putting vast amounts of energy in, I’m not doing much more than letting gravity do the work. I opted for a larger cog on the hub to get a lower overall set of gears and so far I’m happy with it. Any questions and you can phone me on

0161 223 4583

Cheers

Stan.

[Rob Buddle]

Thanks Stan!

I hope you are out on your FW-5-speed today as the weather from where I sit in the office is glorious.

I have checked my email but havn’t seen anything yet (robbuddle@btinternet.com) – did the message make it to me or did you see a bounce receipt?

Yes I tried the american site (bikesmithdesign) for a S-5 sun gear, but he has run out of them, so I will be trying your modification method.

I’ll be intouch.

All the best – Rob Buddle.

[stan ellison]

Hi Rob

I’ve not had a bounce back notice. Could it have got filed as Spam? Anyhow the weather was good here in Manchester and I rode into town, did a little shopping and rode back. I’m now compiling a to do list to fix the several problems that surfaced. The thread has gone on one of the cotter pins and five minutes after tightening it is loose again. 2 problems with the gears. The old gear cable outer i9s in a poor state and changing up in gear, or relaxing cable tension, is uncertain. Changing the other way is OK so maybe a new cable will fix that. The other problem is the actuator kept getting knocked off the nail by the pannier but that is easily fixed. I hope to get it fixed by the weekend.

Cheers

Stan

[Rob Buddle]

Glad you got out today Stan. Bikes are never “finished” are they?!

I’ve had a thorough check and can’t find your email anywhere. Would you mind sending it again?

All the best,

Rob (robbuddle@btinternet.com)

[stan ellison]

I sent a copy with fewer attachments.

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