[Rob Buddle]

Dear all,

I’m new to the club and to Moultons, but purchased a (relatively cheap) Mk2 from eBay over a year ago. It is much in need of restoration and my plan is to strip it, but the battered frame powder-coated, and then fit sympathetic upgrades to the components. The only major change I want to make is to fit drop bars. I’m quite prepared to strip the hubs and rebuild them, including the SA 4-speed rear, but I would also like to replace the rims (and spokes) that are looking the worse for wear. I’m sure I’m not the first to do this, but pricing up a set of alloy rims and stainless spokes from the likes of SJS seems to end up with very expensive wheels, and I have never tried building my own. Does anyone have any advice or is there anyone offering a wheel building service if I supply the hubs?

Sorry for numpty questions – there will be more of them!

Kind regards to all, hope to join in with some rides at some point in the future!

Rob.

[Ian]

Hi Rob

You can do a wheel for @£30 with new rim and spokes, which is not too bad is it?

Building them is not that hard really, I recently did some for my TSR and it is the first time I’ve done more than fix loose or broken spokes (and I did that 30 years ago!) and it went fine.

I find drop bars and getting a 4-speed Sturmey changer to work annoying as you end up with them awkwardly placed on the bend of the bar or you can’t get it into 1st and then that gets in the way of where I want to put my hands.

Good luck with the rebuild, if you are anywhere near West Somerset and want some help with the wheel build let me know!

Ian

[Rob Buddle]

£30 doesn’t sound too bad at all, Ian! What spokes and rims did you use? I’ve had a message from someone else on the forum to say that it isn’t too bad to do, so I am persuaded to give it a go!

I can understand what you say about the drop bars and 4 speed shifter, I shall have to give that some thought.

Unfortunately I am in north Hertfordshire, but I’m sure I will need to pick your brains as the rebuild progresses.

Thanks for your help,

Rob.

[Ian]

Spokes – 5 x £1.84 £9.20 (http://tinyurl.com/2vwq3hf)
Rim – £21.,50 (http://tinyurl.com/9sh2jzk)

Total £30.70 ea – buy two sets and think of everything else you might need for your rebuild at the same time (tyres, tubes, lube?) and SJS delivery price is pretty reasonable. Get lots of things from different places and your postage can be a significant part of your rebuild!

I found Wheelpro’s book to be a worthwhile read for a ‘how to do it’ (http://tinyurl.com/n2hrfu)

The shifter might not be a problem for you, I just found it a bit clunky on drops. I tried using a more recent Sturmey bar end 5-speed but couldn’t get that to change all 4 gears properly. I could get 1-2-3 or 2-3-4 (or mostly 2-3!) but not the lot.

(You’ve had a message from someone on the forum? How peculiar. Wonder what they think the point of a forum is, if not to share?)

[john bartlett]

Hello Rob,
the latest 5 speed sturmey is a nice gear and of course you have the three speed which I have always preferred to the four. Both come with bar end levers which are ideal for drops. As I live in WGC you are not that far away if you wish to look at my bikes to assess the options.
john b.

[Rob Buddle]

Thanks for the links Ian – I had found those rims but not the spokes – they seem to be very well hidden! Good advice on the shifter too.

Hi John, thanks for the offer, I may well take you up on that as I work in WGC! Are the Sturmey 5 and 3 speeds with bar end levers to which you refer “new” kit? Despite growing up in the 70’s this is my first bike with a hub gear and I have to say that I’m quite excited at the prospect!

Thanks again for all the help, everyone!

Rob.

[john bartlett]

yes the three and five speeds are new kit. I am retired so I am home most days
jb

[Steven Brandist]

Good information with regard to rims and spokes Ian.
I’m the same situation as Rob: Old Moutlon, needs spokes and rims, but hub OK – I haven’t attempted this before but I’m going to give it go. I’ve read up and will buy the parts… all sounds simple. But don’t you need to carefully measure the the Effective Rim Diameter (ERD) first to work out what spoke length you need? This diameter isn’t stated on the link you’ve provided (SJS cycles website), so I need to purchase the rim, measure then purchase the spokes?

Is there anywhere I can obtain the ERD for this rim?

Steven

[Matthew Dunn]

Hi Steven,
I’ve got all the gear and a pretty good idea so let me know if you want to borrow a wheel jig, spoke key, dishing stick or spoke tensiometer. I’ve also got a couple of books you can borrow too.
I’m sure you could hunt around on the Brompton forums to find a definitive answer but after learning the hard way a few times I tend to buy the rim before the spokes to make absolutely sure. A vernier might be useful too, so you can measure the hub. I’ve got a few of those as well…
Matt

[Ian]

Matt is right, I’d get the rims first and then, using a couple of old spokes cut to length, calculate the ERD carefully! Then get the spokes you need ordered.

I guess, if you are ordering from SJS, you might be able to give them your hub measurements and ask them to supply the right spokes for the rims they are selling you. Worth a go anyway.

[MCS Eacock]

Brompton uses the same size wheel (349) for its bicycles. Here is an opportunity to get new alloy rims and modern SA hubs. Spare spokes are also available for the DIY.

[Steven Brandist]

Thanks for the offer of tools (etc) Matt. I’ll be calling on you soon…
I have ordered an Alesa 349 size rim (i.e. Brompton) from Simpsons cycles, once it arrives I can measure, then get the spokes. The aim is to get the front wheel to match the already alloy rear wheel. This was fitted by a previous owner – they did a nice job, complete with Sapim double butted spokes. In the centre is the original 1965 Sturmey 4 speed hub.

MSC Eacock – Due to the width and 28 spoke count I thought there was very little new hub choice? The Brompton hub is much narrower than a Moutlon F-Frame of course.

You see my Deluxe here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevenbrandist/6927041906

[Gavin Clark]

I’m pretty sure I worked with an ERD of 334 for the new style Brompton rim, although measuring for yourself is always the safest way.

If you go to Brilliant Bikes (http://brilliantbikes.co.uk/57-brompton-wheels-and-tyres), you can get the Brompton rim for less than SJS., and with free shipping. You can also use Brompton spokes (the 150mm set they sell for the 3 speed hub is okay for a 2x rear wheel build with an FW 4 speed hub). Not sure if any of the Brompton spoke sets tally up length wise for a F-frame front wheel build though.

[Pandora]

I had never built a wheel until I re-rimmed a moulton. Since then I have laced several, no issues at all, in fact they are more true than the machine built wheels on budget bikes in the shops

The 16 inch alloy rims are strong and stiff, only 28 spokes too, so have a go!

The small wheels are easy, large rims tend to flex and distort, small ones are inherently stiiffer, less chance of them cobbling, I assume you are using a hub gear, that is an advantage as there is not much of an offset compared with a derailleur.

Most certainly you should have a go, try the front wheel first, simply copy and old wheel, remember to get the spokes right for the inner tube valve and then carry on lacing

[Steven Brandist]

Wise words Pandora and I echo all that you said… finally built my first wheel! It helped that it was a front and I had another to copy.

[rob crompton]

I want to rebuild the wheels on my Mk 1, they are pretty shot now, at least 2 broken spokes on each and lots very loose. Remarkable they are still fairly true and ride OK.

Brompton rims look like the way to go; looking on Brilliant bikes:
http://brilliantbikes.co.uk/57-brompton-wheels-and-tyres

…they seem to specify 146mm spokes for the brompton Sturmey Archer hub. Does this have the same dimensions as the FW? Gavin suggests 150mm above, but maybe that was for the straight drilled rim and 146mm is for the angle drilled rim. There’s no 150mm set listed now, but I guess either 151mm or 148mm would be close enough if needed.
Does anyone know what spokes are needed for the front wheel?
I’d use a new hub but these seem hard to find in 28h so I think re-using the original is probably sensible.

thanks,

rob.

[Gavin Clark]

Hi Rob

Brompton have changed their rims again since my last message. 150mm spokes were for the previous generation rim. As you say, 146mm appear to be the correct length for building a rear wheel with the new double wall rim and a Sturmey hub.

I can’t help with front spoke lengths unfortunately, as I built my front wheel with a dynohub. However, you can get new Zenith Ambrosio front hubs in 28h if you’re looking to replace the existing hub.

Gavin

[rob crompton]

Thanks for the advice!

I’ve rebuilt the rear, my first wheel build and it seemed to turn out pretty well.
I’ve tried adjusting and greasing the front hub but it doesn’t seem very smooth so I’ve ordered a Zenith hub. It’s frustrating you can get nice 32h hubs for less than half the price.

Now I’m wondering about new brake calipers. I’ve seen mention of Dia Compe 806, Tektro 556/559 and Alhongas being suitable.
Does anyone know which is best?
And do I need to use a front caliper on the rear? I saw this mentioned once. Would this be due to bolt length?

Rob.

[Ian Plain]

Hi Rob I have used the DiaCompe 806 and yes you need 2 fronts.
I have still to bulid wheels for mine I have the Rim and Campag Record hub for the front still wavering about the rear, I have ahub for a 6 speed freewheel but getting a block with teh rations I want is hard, http://instagram.com/p/ewuaSSF2VI/

[Les Crook]

With regards brakes, I have used what was kicking around my spares box. The front is an Ahlonga dual pivot and the rear is old faithful Dia Compe 806. The performance difference is staggering.

This has got me to thinking; has anyone successfully put a dual pivot on the rear of an F Frame?

[rob crompton]

The Dia Compe 806 is dual pivot, isn’t it?

I found pictures of someone using Tektros:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/13469967@N02/5055046866/ (more pictures in the photostream)
…so I ordered a set of R559s.
I found that unlike the ’64 bike in those pictures, my ’65 Standard has a plate underneath, so I had to use the front brake at the rear to have a long enough bolt to reach through. Thankfully SJS have a bolt I can use to convert the rear to another front to use at front.
There was only just enough reach, and one side fouled the chain, but the bolt is slimmer than the original so I used a set of spherical washers from an old brake block to tilt it back slightly. This helps reach and gets it away from the chain.
Braking is great – smooth with good feel and plenty of power. I look forward to doing the front too.

Do any other brakes fit the rear without using spacers?

[Les Crook]

Rob, you’re right, I put the wrong number down like a fool. I meant the 730’s.

[Robin Jackson]

Hi All,
Im just about to order rims and spokes for my first wheel build on a Mk1 that is away at the powder coaters currently.
Im going to go with the new Brompton rims and 146mm spokes for the rear to mate onto the original 4speed hub.
On the front I had planned to reuse the original dynohub, after feeling the weight of it off the wheel 1128g on my scales I have scrapped that idea. Has anyone fitted a brompton shimano dynamo hub with a larger axle? If not can anyone advise on which length spokes to use with the ambrosia hubs and the new Brompton rims?
any advice would be appreciated, I am keen to get the bits on the bicycle to enjoy this beautiful weather
Thanks
Robin

[rob crompton]

Here are my wheel recipes:

Rear:
– Original Sturmey Archer FW hub
– Brompton angle drilled double wall rim QRIM-28-AGL
– Brompton 146mm spokes QSPOK-146-SB-13G

Front:
– Zenith Ambrosio hub
– Brompton straight drilled double wall rim QRIM-28-STD
– 155mm or 156mm spokes ( I used 154mm from SJS and they were a tad short)

Both laced 2x.
My first wheels, and they turned out rather well, if I say so myself 🙂

Rob

[rob crompton]

BTW, if you want a dynamo I can recommend Shutter Precision – I’ve recently had one built into a wheel for my commuter by Spa Cycles. Close in weight and efficiency to the SON, and less than half the price – I think around £90. Very compact and neat looking too.
The guy at Spa said they’re harder to build – don’t know why, but they’re quite narrow flange to flange (about 50mm) so maybe that makes them fiddlier to true.
The small wheel model is the SV8

Rob.

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