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Speedsix Advice
- This topic has 14 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 6 years ago by
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Hi there, I posted this up last night but it didn’t appear – not sure what I did wrong, but if it comes up twice I apologise!
I have recently inherited a blue Speedsix that my grandfather had from new. It has been sitting in a storage cupboard for a few years now but is in pretty good, if dirty, condition.
I don’t really know much about it other than it is fairly rare and sought after.
Can anyone shed some light on the model and possibly impart some advice as to what to do with it? I must confess I’m not a huge cyclist, so other than restoring it for my own pleasure I’m willing to find it a good home!
There are some pics of it here: https://plus.google.com/photos/100338293843997024125/albums/5698373156856655649
Apologies for the poor picture quality, it was dark and I had to use my phone!
Thanks in advance 🙂
Hi Martyn. Thanks for posting these pictures. It’s certainly a bike worth restoring. There are several Speedsix enthusiasts in the Moulton Bicycle Club.
Speedsixes first appeared in Autumn 1965 as a lightweight six speed machine. Up until then, Moultons were offered with hub gears and achieved notable speed and distance records. The Speedsix had derailleur gears and was meant to appeal to racing and club riders. Also, it was fitted with 17″ diameter wheels with narrow 1-1/4″ wide, high pressure tyres that Alex Moulton had developed with Dunlop. This differed from the norm of 16″ X 1-38″ then used on utility Moultons and childrens’ bikes at that time.
I believe that only 600 or so machines were made, some being modified to have front changers converting them to 12 speeds. If you examine the saddle tube clamp area of the main seat upright, you should see some serial numbers on each side of the tube. On one side is the year it was made; the other, the week and the machine number in that week. Perhaps you could post these numbers on the forum. I’m sure someone will give you the full explanation!
I have a Speedsix, that I built up from a frame that I bought back in the early ’80s. I had to find all the other bits I needed at a time when Moultons were very much out in the cold and parts were extremely hard to find. I have several Moultons, but my Speedsix has been my favourite for many years.
I would implore you to restore it for your own pleasure and use.
Spare parts, unique to Moultons, are available from Moulton Preservation in London.
Keep us posted on your intentions!
AynsleyHi Martyn,
The speedsix is one of the rarest and hence very sought after f-frame moulton out there. Because of this is it rather valuable. Congratulations on obtaining such a bike. Finding a speedsix in such a condition is a fantasy and dream for most enthusiasts.
If you feel that you may develop an interest in cycling and bicycle restoration you should definitely restore it and get in to cycling (this is what I would recommend). As someone that does both I think they are great amounts of fun. You will have a very unique, valuable and sought after British bike. However, if you feel that this idea may go nowhere you could look to sell it.
Most people who sell Moultons do so over ebay. There are a lot of enthusiasts in Japan and Thailand. If you work out how to send to these places (with insurance) and can be bothered to send a bike to such places (will most probably require some dismantling of the bike), it will ensure you get the best price for it. My estimate for what you would get is between £900-£1400. Someone who knows more than me may be able to give you a more accurate figure. As said earlier they do not come up often. If you do not want to send abroad but want to sell it, make sure you are able to send within the UK as this will help it reach a decent price, as opposed to collect only. Though I imagine with such a bike, enthusiasts will travel far to pick it up. If you wanted to guarantee that it goes to a club member and enthusiast you could advertise it for sale on the classified section of this website, just choose a price, put it up and see if there are any takers. Members to the Moulton club can view ads one month before it goes public (on the site itself). I am very sure it would generate a lot of interest. I would be most interested but alas I do not have such funds or space!
Best of luck with whatever you decide to do.
Anwar
Thanks for your in-depth knowledge guys!
I did perform a cursory look for serial numbers when I took the initial pics, but must have missed the saddle upright.
There is only the one number stamped on it, on the right hand side. It is: 05439 although it looks as thought the the 0 may have been stamped separately and there could be an upside down 2 at the beginning.
I have uploaded an image of it here: https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/100338293843997024125/albums/5698373156856655649/5699010128333522306
I’m quite impressed with that valuation – my grandad always said it was rare and worth a bit, but I wasn’t expecting that much!
Sadly, I feelwith the current economic climate and my lack of time and workspace I fear I may have to part with it, but as I said before, I’d like to see it go to a good home. A collector is obviously the way to go, as I’m sure they will restore it to its former glory.
Hi Martyn,
Just a bit more info on Moultons (in a nut shell) to give you some background/ perspective on your bike.
Alex Moulton (founder) worked on the original mini and was so impressed with the idea of making a great car in small he considered doing the same with bikes. After some engineering/ research etc he discovered that there was no reason why small wheel bikes would be any worse than large wheelers and if anything there were advantages to the small wheels. The only issue being that small wheels are so strong you feel every vibration in the road so he engineered dual suspension. His f-frame design (aka ‘lazy f-frame’ –because it looks like the letter F lying down), with small wheels, dual suspension and luggage capacity was a huge hit and became a 60s icon.
Essentially there are four main types of f-frame.
The series one
The series two (almost the same apart from the rear forks which are sturdier)
The Mk3 which has a rear triangle as opposed to rear forks
And the mini which was slightly smaller with 14” wheels for children and shorter adults.
Within these different types there were different models which just had slightly different specs. The safari, standard, speed (slightly sportier version), stowaway (split in two so that you could stow it away!) etc.
The rarest are the Speedsix and s-works models. I understand that both these have the series two rear forks (the studier one). Otherwise the differences in these models really made them stand out from the others.
They were made of better (stronger/ lighter) materials.
Built by better builders
Had higher spec equipment on them.
Had 6 gear derailleur system – this was particularly unique as no other model has this –all others had internal hub gears. I also understand that these models were one of the first to adopt the derailleur system when it arrived making the bikes cutting edge.
A rear rack that could be removed completely. Most f-frames you can remove some part of the rear rack but not all of it (apart from the Mk3, though it is a slightly different design having a rear triangle and not the rear forks). This meant that a speedsix could be used as a tourer/ commuter (with luggage capacity) and then you could remove all racks and mudguards and it would turn in to a racer.
They also had rear suspension friction dampers. This is to stiffen up the rear suspension to make it sportier. They are adjustable so that you can dial in how much stiffness you want. There is some debate as to whether they actually make any difference… These are very unique to speedsix’ and s-works. They are also found on some other very early models but only on one side. They are the piece of metal that sits just infront the rear suspension block and is connected to the pivot bolt. One either side of the main tube. You have two on yours, one on each side.
They also had 17” wheels, again making them sportier.
I can’t explain well the difference between the speedsix and s-works though I understand they are very similar. I think the s-works were bespoke in that you could decide on various options like colour, handlebars, etc. Moulton employed Olympic cyclist Jack Lauterwasser to manage the s-work bikes. These are the very rarest and the most sought after. However, the speedsix is right up there. The way to identify an s-works is that there is a letter S in a box just after the word Moulton on the main tube.
I have looked on the other Moulton forum (yahoo website) in the archives quickly but could not see how to identify the year of make of the bike from the serial number. There seems to be a bit of debate with regards to the speedsix. The main part of the debate being whether it was made at the Kirby factory or the Bradford on Avon factory. The Bradford are generally considered better as those builders were better, however, there is generally nothing wrong with the Kirby ones.
If you do sell, I would suggest that you do not try to ‘improve’ the bike by getting any work done on it, like new wheels, tyres, handlebars, servicing etc. Definitely no new paint. Vintage Moultons that get the best price are the untouched ones that are in original condition. Unless you want to keep it for yourself I would not bother doing any work on it. Perhaps a light clean but that’s about it.
If you are curious there is a white Mk3 currently on ebay. The auction ends this evening. The bike is in excellent condition. Official numbers say that only 5000 of these were made (though most people think many more than this were actually built). Due to the low numbers of Mk3s they get a higher price than most vintage Moultons. This seller states that it is for collection only. If they were willing/ able to send it abroad I would guess that they would look to get around £400. It will be interesting to see what it actually sells for as it is in such great condition. Yours is much much rarer than this… As was said earlier, only around 600 were made. Your granddad clearly had good taste!
Hope this was of some interest.
Best regards
Anwar
Anwar makes some good points above. I have posted the following on the Yahoo forum today but in case you don’t follow it there, here it is –
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If it were mine and I wanted to sell it I’d take some good, clear and large photographs, make sure it was visible as a sale to the whole world (well, certainly East Asia and the US), that shipping was arranged and wait till the end of the auction. If I were nervous I’d put a sensible reserve on it. But I think that would get good money anyway. If any dealer wanted it they would have to pay more than their potential customers – who would all know the hammer price too.The only reason some people are trying(?) to make money from Moultons is because the sellers are not maximising their opportunities. Selling only to the UK and offering ‘collection only’, with low BiN’s (or by ending the auction early) reduces your number of potential buyers and offers the resellers the chance to profit.
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The ‘problem’ being as I see it is there appear to be probably a couple of ‘dealers’ operating, somewhat covertly, on ebay and taking advantage of sellers naïvety and profiting handsomely by promptly offering bikes on to foreign buyers that they have either snapped up undervalued or found advertised badly.
I have no problem with old Moultons making ‘good’ money (I know some in the club do!) but think that blatantly taking advantage of others is to be discouraged. Your Grandfather loved that bike, and in its day it was quite something, so don’t be too quick to give it up so that others can profit from it.
I’d give it a clean and polish and see where to go from there. There are plenty of Moulton aficionados who would love that bike as much as your Grandfather did and would be willing to pay good money for it.
I hope that helps and wish I could afford to think about buying it but it is worth more than I can spare at the moment and I’d guess that it might get @£1300 quite easily. If I had that spare it’s what I’d be willing to bid for it anyway!
I’d guess that you’d get less than £1300 in that condition. The last bike I remember seeing in the same state made £537 a couple of years ago:
The best way to find out would be to put it out to auction and see.
Suffice it to say it would sell for more than £537, as I’d be prepared to do without eating for a month and bid more than that.
Thanks for all the info guys, you really know your stuff!
Was very interesting to read the history of the company and the model in particular – I can sdee why they are so sought after now.
Anyway, an update: I have agreed a sale with a UK based collector who has promised to restore it to its former glory, and that was a big part in my decision. I could have probably got more for it if I had put it up for auction, but I would prefer it to stay nearer to its “birthplace” than the far east!
I’m sure the new owner will keep you up to date on it as and when they decide, and I look forward to seeing how it turns out myself.
Looks like the ‘UK based collector’ who promised to restore it to its former glory’ got enough money for it Martyn. Don’t think they bothered to keep anyone up to date on it as they seem to have promised you though.
You got to be careful of the company you keep…
https://sphotos-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/p480x480/1236266_487489894680746_1740507354_n.jpgIMO the good name and reputation of the Club has been used for naked profiteering. The young man has been not received a fair price, the bike has not been renovated and kept in the country as was promised and other members of the Club have been denied the opportunity to buy the bike for a fair price. Totally unacceptable behaviour IMO.
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