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Which tire for my TSR?
- This topic has 29 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 12 months ago by
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Hi!
I’m living in Germany, in Freiburg, near France and Switzerland.
I have now a TSR 18 (9×2). I want to use it for light and not too slow touring in France, mainly on roads, sometimes off road, on so called (in german forums) forest-highways, no gravel paths.
Right now I’m breaking my mind about the tire-question.
Which one do prefer the british moultoneers?
The TSR came with Continental Contact(37-406), but they feel slow and the rubber wears off fast(was said to me by german moultoneers).
I bought Schwalbe Duranos. But aren’t they to narrow for off-road?
What about:
Schwalbe Kojak(35-406) and his puncture resistance?
Panaracer Pasela(37-406)- max. 65 psi in view of the idea of riding high pressure
Schwalbe Marathon Green Guard – too heavy?Regards
PeterI have used most of the tires you mention.
The Panaracer Pasela are relatively cheap urban tires, nothing very enthusiastic.
The Kojak wear ultra fast due to their soft rubber and are fragile, not only for punctures but also bad roads, stones…
The Durano are good tires, long lasting and relatively fast. Their drawbacks are comfort but it isn’t an issue on a full suspended bike like the Moulton and their grip is also limited.
The Marathon are strong tires with a good puncture protection, but relatively slow and heavy, their grip is also limited. They are a little outdated and for those who want strong tires, the current second generation of Marathon Plus is a better option.
If you want top performance tires, lightweight, very high speed, highest grip, with a good reliability+durability and good puncture protection (similar or slightly better than the Durano), go for the Pro-One in 28×406.
There was another option providing top protection with road bike tire performances, i.e. the Durano Plus unfortunately, Schwalbe stopped them in 28×406 size but you can still find then on some German online shops or from SJS (https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tyres/20-x-110-inch-28406-schwalbe-durano-plus-hs464-folding-tyre-20-inch-406/)
Whatever you choose, if possible, give preference for folding tires instead of wired tires.
As I’m looking for fast Touring-Tire, very high speed isn’t really necessary. I don’t have any experience with tubeless. I don’t understand why the Durano should not be an issue for the Moulton. On pictures I often see Moultoneers who use them.
One still can buy the Durano Plus but they seem to be much slower than the normal Duranos.The Pro-one can be mounted with inner tube and the Moulton standard rims are not tubeless ready -> with the standard rims, the Pro-one must be mounted with inner tubes.
What I mean is that the lack of comfort of the Durano is not a problem for the Moulton that has front and rear suspension. The lack of comfort is a problem for bike without suspension.
The difference in speed between the Durano and Durano Plus isn’t very big.
Now, if you can afford them, the Pro-one are really much better than the Durano in any aspect.
Salut Jean-Pierre,
the Pro-one really seem to be the best (and the most expensive) choice. But with inner tubes they should be slower, shouldn’t they?. I don’t have the standard rims on my Moulton. As I want to use the bike for touring I changed some parts of the TSR(crank, pedals, derailleur etc.). The seller recommended good cavity rims with XT-hubs. So tubeless might work! But on tour driving with inner tubes seems easier in case of damages.
Merci pour tes infos en détails! J’attends le mois de mai afin de partir en France enfin !
Cordialement
PeterHi Peter,
Actually, I do not know if the Pro-one are much faster without inner tube because I never had the opportunity to use then without inner tube. The only thing I can say is that they roll very well with inner tube.
I have two Moulton with factory mounted rims that aren’t the same, the older one has rims marked Alexrims+ 406+ the more recent one has rims marked Moulton MT20. The Pro-one are much easier to mount on the Moulton MT20 marked rims.
In theory, tubeless is less sensitive to puncture and the sealant liquid should automatically seal small punctures. It is possible to find real tubeless ready ETRTO406 rims and wheels from https://www.ginkgo-veloteile.de/ for example.
Salut Jean-Pierre,
I’m not afraid of punctures and in 20 years of touring I had perhaps 5 flats. I can’t really remember. I never had any Tire-Plus-versions on my bikes. I prefer tires which increase the joy of riding.
According to this test the rolling resistance between tubeless and tubes ist not significant:
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/specials/schwalbe-one-tubeless-clinche
A difference in speed between the Durano and the Pro-One is about 7 Watts. That’s pretty much.
In Germany the Pro One costs about 37€. So I will think about buying a pair.Thank you !
regards
PeterHello Peter,
Thanks for the test, its interesting.
Now the case of the Pro-one is different: there is only one version of Pro-one, the tubeless and the comparison is not between a tube tire with inner tube and a tubeless tire but between a tubeless tire with an inner tube and the same tubeless tire mounted without inner tube.
The Schwalbe One in ETRTO 23×406 was fragile I wouldn’t recommend this tire (that doesn’t exist anymore) which is not the case of the Pro-one in ETRTO 28-406.
I also bought my Pro-one’s from a German online shop, its the place were they are the cheapest.
Jean-Pierre,
you said that the Schwalbe Marathon is slow.From experience? At 6bar this tire seems to be nearly as fast as the Durano: 18,8 Watts (Marathon Green guard) vs 18,0 Watts ( Durano, 8 bar)
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/tour-reviews/schwalbe-marathon-2015Regards
PeterI’ve just switched from Durano’s (406×28) to Pro-one (406×28) with inner tube on my TSR. I don’t have the equipment to do rolling resistance etc. However, my subjective impressions are a much more supple tyre that adds to the ride by smoothing out surface imperfections that the suspension doesn’t respond to. It feels like it has more grip as well. These two factors certainly give the impression of the tyre rolling faster. I can’t comment on durability, wet weather grip or puncture resistance yet.
My experience isn’t based on measurements, just feeling.
Now, I do not see the Marathon in their global list that contains only road race tires.
I wonder if the measurement method is the same for road race tires and touring tires because then touring tires like the Marathon Supreme (15.8W) and Vittoria Voyager Hyper (14.8W) at only about 6 bar outperform many pure road race tires like the Vittoria Corsa at 8.3 bar which, even if the touring tires are wider, is difficult to believe ?
Note also that this rolling resistance measurement is done at constant speed, it doesn’t take into account the tire weight difference that will influence acceleration due to the higher inertia of heavier tires.
Anyway, the road race tire table show the big difference between the Durano and Pro-one and because they are in the same table, we can expect that these two were measured with the same method.
My TSR 9 came with Marathon Racer tyres (40-406) which I hated at first. It felt like cycling through treacle. Once I had worked out that I didn’t need the tyre to have any suspension, I pumped them up to 90-100 psi and it was a huge improvement in speed and feel. This is different to the latest wisdom but then so is a Moulton.
To go racing I swapped to Kojaks but the upside from the Marathon Racers was marginal.
On another 20″ bike the kojaks give me ~2kmh advantage on my slightly hilly local circuit over Marathon Plus tyres, but I tend to keep the MPs on for the toughness in urban cycling or touring. The MPs were quite slippy to begin with and still don’t seem that great for traction.
My wife’s bike with Marathon Greenguard (normal Marathon) is definitely faster on a roll down test than mine with MPs, with some potential loss of toughness.
Overall (if I didn’t already own lots of tyres) I would go with normal Marathon Greenguard and pump them up quite hard for touring. Good rolling resistance and less chance of pinch flats or p*******s when touring.
Hi Peter,
I had to take the mudguards off my other bike to fit the Marathon Plus, which is not ideal as it is more of a touring bike. My Moulton I treat as more of a race bike (even though the performance is almost identical) so don’t bother with mudguards anyway.
If I was to take my Moulton touring I think I would still fit Marathon GGs (or put the Marathon Racers back on) and live without the mudguards. Obviously weather and location make a difference to your choice.
Cameron
Hi Peter,
Just got back from a quick tour in Malaysia, where the roads are patchy and often covered in debris, especially in urban areas. On the main roads it was a balance between further out into the traffic or further into the metal strewn gutter or hard shoulder. Many times I rode straight over a piece of metal, sharp rocks, or across ridges and holes, and was every time thankful for the Marathon plus tyres. I would think that my kojaks would have been destroyed, rather than just puncturing.
However I did miss the mudguards this time. Some heavy afternoon downpours saw me soaked from above and utterly covered in road grime/grit from below.
My M+ are 47mm wide and don’t quite fit under my mudguards (non Moulton). I see that the Marathon Greenguard are 406-40 and that the SKS mudguards go up to 40mm.
Can anyone on the forum confirm that they fit ok? Or not?
Regards,
Cameron
Hi Cameron,
as I wrote at my TSR9 it didn’t work: mudguards SKS+Marathon GG. When I bought the bike there were Continental Contact2 on it. They’re 37-406. It seems to me that this is the largest tire possible.
Regards
PeterThe Schwalbe Durano doesn’t seem to like french rough roads. Today I had two flats within 5km. The first was caused by a little sharp stone.
As I’m mainly touring in France I say good bye to this tire. Now the Marathon GG seems to be the best choice. With or without mudguards.regards
PeterThe Durano are training race road tires, not tour tires.
If you haven’t bought the Marathon GG yet, consider the Marathon Plus second generation that have a better grip and roll as well as the GG with an even better puncture protection.
Now, there are other possibilities outside Schwalbe like the very good Continental Contact Speed 28-406. Moulton was using Conti Grand Prix that were excellent much better than the Durano but unfortunately Conti stopped the production of the Grand Prix in 28×406 what forced Moulton to switch to the Durano.
Would you say that the contact speed is a real touring tire with a better puncture resistance?
If I look at bicyclerollingresistance.com they say that the marathon GG is quite fast, faster and lighter than the Plus. Therefore the Plus exists in 35-406.
Tires for a Moulton shouldn’t be to fat I think corncerning optics.Hi Cameron,
I put on the Marathon GG on my TSR9. Good news: the SKS mudguards fit !
But you have to check it at the front wheel. My SKS mudguard in the front originally declines a bit towards the tire. I shortened it because of my brake, so there’s no problem with the Marathon GG.
Maybe with the full length the mudguard touches the tire.Regards
PeterThe Continental Contact Speed have been renewed, I never tried them, I found some Grand Prix and use them first on my Jubilee. My speed is with Pro-one.
The Continental Contact Speed should be much faster than the Marathon and weight 50% less.
Do you know what version of the Marathon Plus was tested ? The first generation was quite slow but the current second generation is really good but indeed 60g heavier than the GG. I use them on my Brompton after having GG.
The Marathon Plus tested is from 2015, so this might be the first generation? 60g isn’t worth talking about. While touring a good compromise between speed and puncture resistance is needed.
The puncture resistance of the Marathon GG would do it. But if the tested version of the Plus is the old one, and the new Plus is faster, this would be very interesting because of its width (35 vs. 40). ‘Narrow’ looks better in my point of view, especially at a Moulton.Back from a nice little Tour in Southern France. The Marathon rolls quite good, feels very reliable on bad roads. So its a very good tire, a very good compromise when driving on the good, the bad and the ugly roads. Nevertheless I will try the new Marathon Plus (35-406). Rumors say, he rolls better now …
https://fotos.mtb-news.de/p/2272150?in=user
https://fotos.mtb-news.de/p/2272149?in=user
Regards Peter
Hi Peter,
Would you be able to do a quick roll down test before and after you change the tyres from Marathon Greenguard to Marathon Plus? It would be very interesting to see how much difference the new compound makes on rolling resistance. If you are feeling enthusiastic you could repeat the experiment at different pressures…
Regards,
Cameron
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